Yes, digi scrapping specifically. I used to hang out at DST for years and they were always very active around dsd time. Now, not even a mention. Wondering why it doesn't just close up if the owners of the site can't be bothered. ---- I've wonder myself why DST even exists anymore. It seems pretty useless at this juncture and I don't have a clue how/why they they continue on.
To all designers who buy vintage images from CU designers like ABD designs and One of a Kind design studio that are both at CU digitals, please be careful. All of these images can be found for FREE at The Graphics Fairy.
Gave up on the snp facebook hop. The ones I tried eithr the links didn't work--or they didn't have links to the next person, or the download didn't work if you ever got to that area. Very poorly organized.
# 7 - I completely agree. I bypassed both the Lilypad and Sweet Shoppe this time because there were just better sales at other stores. I got some great deals at GingerScraps, SBG, Oscraps. I had a ton of stuff on wishlists at the Lilypad and SSD but I decided to shop were I got more bang for my buck!
What the hell is going on at Pixels & Company...A Bunch of designers are *poof* gone?!? All that's showing right now are Celeste Knight, Deena Rutter, Gennifer Bursett, Jen Allyson, Robyn Meierotto, and Scooty's Designs (guest). What happened to Sugarplum, Mari K, Mommyish, Karla Dudley, Amanda Yi, DSI, etc??
37-maybe they will go back to where they were previously. Who knows? I really like the ones that are leaving. I've followed three of them for quite some time. Good luck to all of them. I hope they find a home quickly.
I've got no idea what's supposed to keep anyone interested for the next 3 weeks before she decides to unveil things. I don't think this was a very well thought out move. Do they not realize that it kind of just ruined challenges for the month? Like people are going to be able to participate with scraps they bought that should have been relevant? Fortunately I hadn't bought my challenge stuff yet but most of my scraps are now basically...irrelevant pertaining to their forum. Store collabs? I mean...? I hope they plan to do something in the next 2 and a half week period to keep anyone's interest because all of this mystery makes it kind of awkward to post there right now. They need more than that post to break the ice on this. I feel so...mph...kind of done there to be honest. Over 2/3 of what was P&Co gallery usable...isn't anymore for me.
There forum was open and you could read everything. They are all staying together and shipping out because they didn't agree with how Gen was doing things. Stay tight, they will be back!
42, I didn't. Sry But what I can tell you is that it was basically them leaving her. It's sad but It sounded like they gave her reasonable opinions and needs for change and she basically shut them down. I honestly don't blame them since it is a business.
41...really? I check the forum often and never saw anything. Well, maybe not that often. But geez. Good to know though. I hope they hurry because I had some products to buy from some that just left for some pics I wanted to scrap. P&Co was starting to look worthy of a home forum for me. And then this. :POW: I'm dying to know what Gen wanted to change that sparked this much trouble. And honestly, I hope this means there will be CT calls to try for. Or at the very least, guest spots.
I was in a store with some of the ones that left, and they were bossy, know it all bitches who thought they ruled the roost. I was glad when I didn't have to deal with them anymore, and I hope they're not coming to the store I sell at now.
I hope, for your sake, they do not. However, they DO create some great kits and that's what they are selling. If they was to be bitches. That's their right. Just keep giving us good kits. Cheers.
Look a little harder. All of them are talented. Everyone at P&Co was/is talented. It's just a falling out is all. I wish them all the best. The ones who stayed and the designers who are on a new journey. They put so much love into what they do. They're all great. Good luck ladies!
42 I did take screenshots of their resignation letter post but I can't post here without outing who I am and I choose not to. 43 was spot on about what was there to read though. Why would Gennifer have opened the forum to the public anyway? That's quite a mistake.
You absolutely could post it. Crop out any identifying information, set up a free photo host without identifying info and post it. It will take you 10 minutes.
But people are saying it was. So as far as I know, it was and it could be anybody. Maybe no one did it, maybe it was a glitch, maybe it never happened but unless there is absolute proof that it didn't, which how could there be? rumor enough should insulate against any real proof of who it is. Of course the better way would have been to not say anything to begin with and just do it.
57, I love Gennifer's kits too. I noticed that she often (couple times a year) had $1 or $2 sales on them. That's how I picked up a lot of her stuff that I own.
#59 when the private forum was made public, it looked like the opposite that designers wanted change and Gennifer just ignored it. Her changes were just adding more CT members to take over her responsibilities, not improve her business practices.
#55 - she removed the designers permissions for everything first thing in the morning. then she kicked everyone out 12 hours later. the forum thing was not something any of the admin team could have done. gen is just stupid enough to make a mistake like that. she doesn't know what she's doing. which is part of the reason why she just lost her entire store.
#60, so basically 'changes' is a strong euphemism for "I just threw a fit, so I better come up with something to explain 14 designers leaving and QUICK." Yikes. I do not envy her right now.
#30 there is a feature in some versions of x-cart where you can choose and change the release date of a product.
Note of advice - If you decide to change the release date of one of your products be sure to also change back to your old packaging. It just looks funny to see a product that was supposed to have been released in 2012 in new 2014 packaging. http://imageshack.com/a/img746/5227/AF6OSe.jpg http://imageshack.com/a/img903/3097/B2qkAD.jpg
I personally don’t think these ladies are using each others products, but are apparently finding their resources in the same places.
#65 - I think she's just changing over her packaging. I have the old version of the product (copyright 2012). Sorry, I don't buy that it's just a case of them getting their resources in the same places. It's the exact same 12 leaves only the other designer split them into 2 packs of 6, adjusted the color a little, and then released them a bit a part so that it wouldn't be as obvious what she was doing. If it was just a case of getting their resources in the same place, there would be some variation to it - more or less leaves, something different. It's too much of a coincidence that they both bought only and exactly the same thing. If I were Rachael or I knew Rachael, I would be making a big deal about it. If there was a chance that it was a case of same resources, then the other designer would know where she got them, short of that I would be making a fuss.
Really, who cares anyhow? Designers come and go, they get tired of being somewhere and start their own store. That is how P&Co came also if you remember.
The letter from the designers was posted yesterday. I saw it last night.
I had heard from a CT friend that one of the designers said that Gen took away their admin access in the morning, before even she asked people if they were staying or leaving. That sounds backasswards to me. From what it sounds like, she was taking them out everything all day long until she finally shut their stores down last night. So who knows if they had access at point that the forum was made public. It's possible. But it's just as possible Gen was working in the forum and messed everything up. Either way, I find it hilarious. And we all know the truth behind the mask that Gen is trying to put up now. Things aren't all shiny and new at PCo. Everyone was leaving her and she threw a temper tantrum and kicked them all out.
Actually, 74, your completely correct. That is EXACTLY how it happened. I obviously can't say how I know but, trust me, I do. Just remember that these designers take this very seriously. They really do try to avoid any kind of drama because their business, for a lot of them, are a huge chuck of their income. The designers did NOT leave on a whim. It was a collective decision that was well thought out. They planned to exit with plenty of notice. Respectfully and with decency. Unfortunately the gun was jumped, Gennifer got upset and they were left without a store for the rest of the month. Now, not saying that you all think this but just in case you do, know that not a single one of the designers wanted to be without a store for almost a month. Everyone is working hard and everyone wished all the best.
except that I saw the forum when it was open last night, 76. there was a thread gennifer started about how much she loved her team and how she had been doing a poor job and how she hired admins to do her work for her and "please stick it out with me!"
the designers countered with a post that detailed specific demands they had for her to meet if they were all going to stay in the shop together. her response was that she could do some of those things but not all of them.
the other post I read was the designer's resignation letter that was posted yesterday. all 14 of them were on the list and they gave her notice of the 30th being their last day.
that's all I know but I did see it with my own two eyes
I'm inclined to believe that story, because really think about it - when do 14 people all throw a temper tantrum at the same exact time and destroy their businesses and shops? That would be some sort of epic coincidence like the world has never before seen.
#76, there were no temper tantrums on the part of those that left. They respectfully gave their notice of their intention to leave P&Co on 30th November giving three weeks notice. This was agreed to by Gen. She subsequently went back on that agreement and removed their stores and their access with this cryptic 'changes' notice. Those that have left wanted to transition smoothly, with respect for their customer base, in a controlled and calm way and with everyone's dignity intact. Removing people who acted gracefully in such a way is nothing more than the actions of a very panicked store owner with a distinct lack of business sense and a penchant for drama.
I can't imagine a single store owner keeping 15 people in the shop that are building a store at the same time. They may not have wanted their stores closed suddenly, but what she did is smart business sense in my book.
I agree wholeheartedly with 82. Most businesses would do just the same in many other industries. I've already unsubscribed from several mailing lists. I have always found Gennifer to be helpful, knowledgeable and generous. From a customer perspective that was important to me, together with the well organised store and forum.
I know from a source that Gen booted them and that it wasn't intended for them to leave so abruptly. I'm assuming this has been stirring for a while so a plan was made to gradually make a move and do things peacably. Nothing tantrum about that. Why should they suck it up when it's clear that 14 designers were in agreement that it just wasn't working for them there and Gen wasn't willing to make amends. Regardless of her lack of willingness, they decided that they would make their exits peaceable, and Gen wasn't having it and dropped them all abruptly.
It's unfair to say 14 designers were the ones throwing tantrums. 14 is a pretty big majority. 14 means that Gen wasn't interested in negotiating with her staff's needs...so they have a basic right to either go or to or create a place for them to go that meets the needs that 14 designers found equally reasonable.
In this matter at least, Gen lacked serious business sense. Her ego and emotions got in the way of her business management. Because as the shop owner, last I checked, she makes a cut of everything they sell, but her ego and emotions overlooked that because she had to make business personal. And at a time when she likely REALLY needs the money.
ETA 83 again, with the excption of Mommyish I can't say that I will miss any of the defectors. Am wondering though who the super special mystery designer is who will be joining them.
Last time I checked, every digi store has contracts. If Gen tried to change the terms of the contracts, then it's on her. If they tried to change the term of the contracts and she disagreed, it's on them.
I don't know who this is, but it was posted on the PCO facebook page and ai agree with it.
Connie Johnson Cook Some of the designers that left are already announcing a new store. You don't throw those together in a day. Looks like it's been in the planning for a little while. I wish everyone the best wherever they land. Like · Reply · about an hour ago
What did they expect? I haven't seen Gen say anything bad about them, but if they've been planning a new store, I would have kicked them out too! She's being a lot nicer than I would be in that situation.
I agree with the above posters who said that no business would keep them for a month while they were setting up shop elsewhere. From a business perspective, it makes no sense to support them during their transition.
To the above who say that it makes no sense to keep them while they're setting up shop elsewhere. You know, understandable...but warn the customers and give it a few days notice. It's the way it went down overall without warning that made it so shady.
I have always found Gennifer to be helpful, knowledgeable and generous. From a customer perspective that was important to me, together with the well organised store and forum.
- - - -
That's funny because in one of the forum threads at P and Co today there is a customer complaining that they bought her grab bags over DSD and have been contacting her for 10 days and haven't gotten a response. This is my experience with her also, in the past. I stopped trying to contact her about anything and started going straight to the designers.
89 why warn the customers? I don't understand? You have a wish list you wanted to get at a good 'retirement sale' deal? You'll just have to wait until they have got their act together and shop opened. I can't see that to be a hardship.
I am bemused by the apparent shock of the designers who are leaving that their shops would be shut right away when it became apparent they were setting up in competition. Speaks of either them thinking themselves more important than they are, or their total lack of business acumen.
Obviously the people who think these designers already had a shop set up don't know the designers very well. That group is made up of multiple people who do web site design for a living and at least one of their husbands is a web designer as well. It doesn't look to me like they have a site ready now; it's just a temporary main page right now? Am I missing something? But if any group could set up a shop in a week or two after something like this happens, it's that group.
91 I can only speak of my own experience, which I have done. Any queries I have had in the past have been dealt with by Gennifer promptly and efficiently and to my satisfaction. 83 here btw.
So I got curious reading above and wondering whether this group really was building a site behind the scenes. I looked up the domain www.thedigitalpress.co on WHOIS for domain registration info. Looks like it was registered (purchased) on Sunday night at 10:19 p.m. and then that group gave their resignation about 12 hours later, is that correct? Seems to me that they made the decision to leave one night, registered a new domain, and resigned immediately. Sorry but I side with them on this one.
WHOIS DOMAIN INFO Created by Registrar: TUCOWS DOMAINS INC. Last Updated by Registrar: TUCOWS DOMAINS INC. Domain Registration Date: Sun Nov 09 22:19:16 GMT 2014
97 So they decided to go their own way, got the domain, resigned after that, is that what you are saying? So why the surprise then that Gennifer closed down their stores at P&Co immediately? Did they truly anticipate that she would let them all carry on using P&Co until they were ready in their own sweet time? Really? How naive. Surely they should have known that would be the case. Will they be willing to host a group of designers in their new store whilst knowing they were going to be setting up in direct competition? No? Then why the hypocrisy in expecting anything else from Gennifer?
I'm all for whoever owns the business should be the chief decision maker (unless they appoint/hire someone else to do it) and that employees should never ever be allowed to hold their boss hostage with demands, ultimatums, etc. However, when FOURTEEN employees out of 18 are unhappy enough to want to leave an already-established business, there's an big time administrative problem. I fully understand why Gennifer booted them once she knew they all planned to leave at the end of the month. What I DON'T understand is how she could possibly allow the situation to get so out of control that it resulted in a mass exodus. Not everyone is cut out to be a person in charge of and responsible for others. If I were Gennifer, I'd be maybe rethinking my career choice.
#102: Why on earth would Mye be invited to join the new shop when she was kicked out of P&Co for lying to Gen and other about collab money she kept for herself? She stole from her fellow designers and Gen. Or have you not heard that story? She shouldn't even be selling anywhere now. But no one tells shop owners these important little details.
the designers countered with a post that detailed specific demands they had for her to meet if they were all going to stay in the shop together. her response was that she could do some of those things but not all of them. ___________________________________________
#77, could you please tell us what these specific demands were?
I seriously doubt that the owner at Snap Click Supply even had a clue. ___ She was a guest designer somewhere before that. They had no clue either? Maybe it isn't true. Ever think of that? Unless you directly were a "victim" of her alleged crime(s) YOU truly have no clue.
#77, could you please tell us what these specific demands were? ___ If both sides were being honest with each other, this shouldn't even be a deep dark secret. Spill it. What were these demands? Why did they have to be made? Why wouldn't/couldn't Gen comply? Who was breaking the contract (I assume they had one and that these "demands" were either in the contract..or not)? The remaining designers will definitely NOT be able to keep the store afloat. None of them (with the exception of Gennifer) are remarkable in the least with their work and they haven't produced much. They probably didn't go because it wasn't worth the effort since they don't do that much anyway.
I mean, I agree, they'll be hard pressed to keep the store working, and even though I didn't have a specific fandom for anyone that is left, I can't say I didn't like the designs of the ones left. I had a lot of their stuff on my wishlist as well. They're really good designers. Just because I had favorites, doesn't mean I didn't like all of them. I still find them worthy of purchasing from. I just don't know how long the store itself will last. I think if you put any of those designers in other stores their work would catch attention for the quality and eye for design. I'm happy they'll try to stick around and I'll be more than happy to try supporting both stores. Their feud isn't my feud.
The gossip about Mye is just gossip. I'm one of the designers that she collabed with (and supposedly "stole" from) and someone is really inflating what happened.
The gossip about Mye is just gossip. I'm one of the designers that she collabed with (and supposedly "stole" from) and someone is really inflating what happened. __________________ I'm not surprised by this at all. I think, from what the complaints were back when this transpired, it appeared as if the biggest contributing factor to the problem was a personal conflict between Gen and Mye that REALLY escalated. I know from Mye's posts on her blog that the whole matter deeply saddened her and bothered her for a long time. I'm not saying she didn't do anything wrong..I think there's a grain of truth in that she didn't do what she was supposed to do re: collabs, however, I also don't think she blatantly stole money from several people and then lied about it which is what was floating around the internet several mos. ago.
I still dabble in paper, and the ones that are left are powerhouse designers there. I disagree with whoever said they aren't remarkable. I think they are some of the best out there.
So now the truth comes out about Mye? Why didn't anyone step-up when she was getting smacked on this blog and when it mattered? And if it was only over $20 why on earth couldn't she hand it over and that be the end of it? $20 is just a misunderstanding and probably not cause to have to leave a store. She was painted as a huge thief on this blog.
P&Co better get their shit together. The designers left aren't high product producers and without weekly releases that place will dry up fast!
Deena, Jen Allyson, and Celeste (3 of the designers who remain) are all very talented and successful. Their businesses are somewhat different from most digital designers though; they also design for paper scrapbook companies and fabric companies. Because of that their aesthetic is VERY geared toward paper crafting and they don't always include the types of digital elements (or as many of them) that most digital kits have. They also don't release as frequently as many of the other designers. Robyn also doesn't release often and her stuff tends to be mostly pattern papers, word bits and stickers - not a wide variety, but she's talented. Gen's products are more the "traditional" digital style but again, she doesn't release super often. It'll be interesting to see how this effects the future of P&Co. It'll also be interesting to see if they bring on other designers, and if so who they will be.
I was a designer at P&Co at the time, and Gen was going to come here and post to stop the gossip and lies. She asked permission from the entire design team, and someone (I don't know who or how many) said no.
It's funny to hear that someone is saying the feud wasn't between Gen and Mye, but between another designer and Mye and only about $20.
That second part is true, there was a designer who was owed about $20.
The first part is bull-shit. Gen was also being slighted her collab splits from Mye, as were at least 1-2 other people. Mye did pay people back, but only after being caught and initially she did completely deny it, which isn't very truthful. Paying people back after being caught and after denying things doesn't make the attempt to steal things any less dirty. It was an attempt to steal things. Period.
Mye was also breaking her contract. She was secretly selling her collections from her own website in order to avoid paying commission. Gen asked her to stop. She said she would, but then created hidden pages on her site and deleted the other P&Co designers from her newsletter list and started selling from her newsletter. She's nothing but a cheating liar. And that is why she got kicked out of P&Co.
Gen did ask the designers if she could come to the blog to set things straight, as a way of making it look like P&Co didn't have any problems. The designers said no, because they didn't believe Mye deserved to be absolved of her digi sins. The end.
That makes no sense. If Mye was kicked out, what would her reputation have to do with PCO? And if Gen was supposedly so pissed off at Mye, why would she offer to post here publicly when that's such a risk?
#109 : The designers said they had been promised 20% commission when the shop started but agreed to something higher until the shop was established. I didn't see what they were currently paying but someone said they had been waiting for 2 years. At the end of the discussion, Gen said that would never happen. They said that Gen had been messing up their pay and sending it to them late. She also told them it would be impossible to pay them until 10 days after the pay period ends, which I thought was weird because aren't they all paid with PayPal? Why would it take 10 days? She also said that they had been getting paid 2x a month but she was switching it to just once. She was also changing them $25 when they were late for their freebie collabs. Gen also said she refused to have any sort of marketing budget. Those are the only things I remember. It was a long post in their forum. But from that list, I don't blame those designers for leaving.
118 here. When I left P&Co, we were at 25% commission, but it was changing to be up to 80 depending on sales. We were only paid once a month most of the time I was there, but that changed in the summer to give people the option of two. We had the option to be paid by direct deposit, which I know took extra time. And we were having problems with people meeting deadlines, so we decided that we would have free passes from the collabs, or a late fee if we were late. The $25 was if someone skipped it without using their free pass. I don't know anything about a marketing budget, so I can't comment there.
My reasons for leaving are my own, but in my experience, everything in the store that happened was a joint decision. And, looking at my last contract (it changed a few times while we were there) it looks like they wanted to change the terms, not Gen.
I didn't see the forum post, this is just going off of what 121 is saying it said.
That makes no sense. If Mye was kicked out, what would her reputation have to do with PCO? And if Gen was supposedly so pissed off at Mye, why would she offer to post here publicly when that's such a risk?
=====
When has anything Gennifer does ever made sense before?
My guess is those designers who are leaving decided they wanted to create their "own" store - get a higher chunk of their sales and hurt their own customer base who bought lots of their products over DSD in order to participate in P&Co challenges (yep - that happens!) and now those customers are screwed. Classless and greedy. Anyone with sense would've had a new store's grand opening for DSD not a month later. The designers leaving clearly were being greedy and blind-sided their own customers with their selfishness.
oh sheesh. If you are buying kits for challenges you are a complete moron. I buy kits because I love them and want to scrap my pictures with them. Not to milk 25 cents off of my next kit purchase by participating in some lame challenge in a forum. The greedy one is the customer who is crying fowl over that issue.
You got what you paid for--the kits. It's not the designers' fault that you are so creatively impotent that you can't scrap without a challenge.
I don't have enough money to buy every kit I want, so I have to make choices. Sometimes, one of the deciding factors is how those kits will help me to participate in challenges. If I was enjoying challenges at a shop, then the next big sale, I would likely stock up. It would be very disappointing if they could no longer be used for challenges. So I see where 129 is coming from, but I really doubt the designers wanted to screw their customers on purpose. And I don't think it was based on selfishness.
I don't think they were trying to screw their customers, but I'm not sure they thought it through. Would there ever be a good time to do it? They wanted the income of being in a store while building another one, and I don't think any shop would allow that. If they're going to build a shop, they would need to be shopless for a while.
129 & 131, you have to know that you are taking some risks by playing the challenge game with the stores for discounts. Designers move or retire all the time and generally without much notice.
They only started to build the new store after they couldn't work something out with Gen. A lot of designers move to new stores and don't get booted during the transition even if they are building a new store. Isn't that how it worked while they were building P&Co?
I was 131, and yes, I know there is always a risk that a designer will leave. And I would still be happy with all the kits I bought on sale if that happened to me. But it sounds like 129 might have put down a nice chunk of money, and I can sympathize with the disappointment. As 130 said, there is buying kits to scrap with them, but there is also the participation in the community - that is important for some people. I feel a little bad for the recent Cropped champion, who either accepted a CT spot or accepted the prize money for a year, and now the store is totally changed. But maybe she really likes the designers who stayed.
Anyone with sense would've had a new store's grand opening for DSD not a month later. The designers leaving clearly were being greedy and blind-sided their own customers with their selfishness. Nov 12, 2014, 4:10:00 PM
----
Those designers didn't know they were even going to be building a store at that point. This all went down this week. So there wasn't a scheme to gyp you out of your challenge discount.
There's no way p&co will survive with those designers left. I checked and I spend roughly 85% of my digiscrap budget there but not once did I ever buy anything from the designers that remain. That store is going under, it's just a matter of time.
Well, she has options. There are plenty of talented designers out there and she could probably hand-pick and invite and fill the shop up quickly or put out a call to see who is interested. There are plenty of designers out there who would be willing to go there even after this. I think if she's going to try to run a store with just what she has left it will be an epic fail though.
#70 They are not exactly the same. There aren’t just differences in the colors. There are differences in the creases and folds on the edges of the leaves as well. Those two designers could fuss at each other all day long if they want to, but my guess is they won’t. They both know where they got them and it wasn’t from each other. #65 mentioned that they could have gotten them from same place and I have to say that I agree. Not only is it completely possible, it is plausible that they bought them from the same store that got them from the same distributor, who packaged and distributed multiple packs of 12 paper leaves. The differences can be seen in each designer’s pack of leaves, and it is also possible for anyone to purchase their own pack of leaves, scan and extract them, and sell them in their own store if they are so inclined.
And obviously everyone shops like you. __ No, not everyone shops like she does but it's OBVIOUS that the remaining designers cannot carry a store simply for the reason they don't produce enough. You have to have a varied, decent-sized inventory to keep afloat and they don't have that currently. It's not rocket science to see that major changes will have to be made for this store to succeed.
That would cause mass destruction in digiland if every designer had to pull their kits since Prima woke up to the fact that their handcrafted flowers are being scanned and sold.
The Prima Flower scandal of 2014 is about to commence. :evillaugh:
And #129 - you are making a lot of assumptions about a situation you know nothing about. The designers have been passively letting things go and build up for a long time and some of them decided they would confront Gen about it. The designers LOVE P&CO + their customers. They did not value their leader and vice versa.
They did not want to leave, but as a last resort were willing to come together and create a sort of *co-op* store if it came down to it. The designers tried their best to be as professional as possible and wanted to stay on for their customers. It was Gen who kicked them back and shut off their shops. If the customers have anyone to blame, then please don't blame these designers who are incredibly talented, dependable and willing to compensate their customers with anything they need - including past purchases.
This situation is very sad and the designers are working as hard and fast as they can to get back up and running for the customers.
"I don't think they were trying to screw their customers, but I'm not sure they thought it through. Would there ever be a good time to do it? They wanted the income of being in a store while building another one, and I don't think any shop would allow that. If they're going to build a shop, they would need to be shopless for a while."
=====
Let's just get one thing straight: more than one post up above has said something similar to this idea - that no shop owner in her right mind would allow designers to stay at her shop if they were building another shop behind her back.
In almost any other industry in the world, employers allow people to give their 2 week notice even if they're leaving the company to go to a rival company. Employers not only allow that - they expect it. They require and appreciate the 2 week notice, so they can begin the process of filling the position.
Also, it is customary for people find a new job before they quit their old job. Nobody wants to be jobless for a period of time, and employers never require it. Don't fool yourselves. People give notice as a courtesy to their employer - not as a courtesy to themselves.
In this industry, though, it just so happens that some of the employers are emotional women who make decisions based on feeling butt-hurt and not based on good business practices. What Gennifer has done here is just that. She screwed over her customers because she saw red when most of her entire design team announced they didn't love her anymore.
No, 154. These designers didn't begin a competing company until they gave their notice. They were never planning on starting a competing company, or leaving at all, until 3 days before that when Gennifer turned down the demands they made that she should finally honor the promises she'd given when the site first opened. If she had been reasonable and honored the promises she'd been making for almost 2 years, none of this would have happened. Anyone who saw the posts in the hidden part of the forum when it was open to the public knows this. I only wish I had taken screen-shots.
155, unless you have a contract or written promise to back up your claims that you're willing to post here, I don't believe it. I'm 118/123, and nothing that has been posted as their demands (as 121 said they were) was ever promised when I was there.
How many of those designers were even there when the site opened? It seems like most of the ones from DHD stayed at PCO, which blows your theory about broken promises.
"She also told them it would be impossible to pay them until 10 days after the pay period ends, which I thought was weird because aren't they all paid with PayPal? Why would it take 10 days? She also said that they had been getting paid 2x a month but she was switching it to just once. She was also changing them $25 when they were late for their freebie collabs." -------------------------------------
It's not uncommon to have a waiting period to get paid with a commission. You're lucky it's not a full month before getting paid your commission/sales. (ie. August's commissions/sales being paid at the end of September). Also it's not uncommon to get paid your commissions/sales only once a month. That streamlines the accounting process. Sure, it sucks when you're the person waiting to get paid, but this is common in other types of business.
The $25 late fee sounds like for an incentive for designers to get their work done on time. If it's not on time, it holds up the entire collab & could reflect badly on the store if it's been advertised to be released on a certain day. Doesn't sound unreasonable.
The designers have been passively letting things go and build up for a long time and some of them decided they would confront Gen about it. _____________ It would have probably been nicer for everyone if the designers had been mature and honest from the get go and not behaved as "passive" two-faced schoolgirls. They're as much to blame for the way this was handled as Gennifer and their new self-labels of Victims and martyrs is very off-putting to me. I've read ad nauseum from their different newsletters, etc. how they're working very hard..blah..blah..Well, newsflash: THEY CHOSE to leave and that's what happens when you choose to start a new business; you work hard. It's unfortunate that Gennifer didn't allow them to stay in her store while they built their own business, however, she'd have proven to be an idiot had she done so. This is indeed a mess and to entirely blame Gennifer is ridiculous.
No, 161, but if someone says "poor me, I didn't know there would be repercussions to my decision" they are. That's what they're doing. I think that both sides behaved in the way they thought was best for their business, and not the customers. It's not fair to blame one side more than the other.
Perhaps they both did behave in a way they thought was best for their businesses- but in my opinion- and it is just MY OPINION- I think that Gennifer made an error in not at least negotiating with the departing designers to finish out the week which I believe they were willing to do. Regardless of what others think- it leaves a bad taste in my mouth as I think it shows very poor judgment. I would have had a lot more respect for her if this had been handled in a more professional fashion.
155, unless you have a contract or written promise to back up your claims that you're willing to post here, I don't believe it. I'm 118/123, and nothing that has been posted as their demands (as 121 said they were) was ever promised when I was there.
__________
Yes, Amber, and we all think you are a douche for talking about behind-the-scenes info and issues now that you're gone. Your P&CO contract even had a clause about not sharing privileged info you knew while at the site. Stop being an asshole and go mind your own business.
163, where have any of them said "poor me?" I haven't seen anything but positive words. I think you're reading more into their "we are working hard" than is really there. I'm sure they are excited about their new adventure and have the job to let their customers know that they are working to bring something fun and worth waiting for.
How many of those designers were even there when the site opened? It seems like most of the ones from DHD stayed at PCO, which blows your theory about broken promises.
________
No the ones who stayed are the people who are personal friends with Gennifer, and who don't produce enough digital products to really care at all where they sell or what percentage they get or how often they are paid. Their main focus is paper and fabric and that's why they don't have the same need to have their digital business run more efficiently and fairly. They just don't care, and they're friends.
I think that both sides behaved in the way they thought was best for their business, and not the customers. It's not fair to blame one side more than the other.
=====
Wrong again. The ONLY reason the designers gave 3 weeks of notice and wanted to stay at the site was to make it better for the customers and to give Gen time to fill their spots. The designers knew that if they left overnight, it would hurt Gen's chances of wooing new people and they really weren't trying to screw her over; they just wanted to leave. If it weren't for the customers and not wanting to screw over Gen, they would have left last Friday, which was the day after she responded to them with a solid NO to everything they asked for her to consider.
Wrong again. I saw the forum when it was public, and I read Gen's response. She said yes to some things, maybe to some things, and no to some things.
I'm not saying I wouldn't have left the store if I was one of the designers, because I don't know all the back story. But she definitely didn't say no to everything. You sound like you have an axe to grind.
Wrong again. Just because you are both idiots. It doesn't matter. What's done is done. If you like the designers, follow them to the new store. If you don't, then P&Co is still there with 10 products in the store.
If the designers had given their 3 weeks notice, and stayed for those three weeks, would they have all drifted off to other stores as they made their own arrangements, or was the new shop the plan all along?
Yes, as of the weekend, you idiot. Thurs Gen told everyone things would never change, even after all of the waiting and stringing along. Fri and Sat the designers all had discussions and tried to make a decision about what to do. That takes time when you are dealing with people spread all over the globe. On Sunday they decided to leave and form a new shop together. A resignation letter was drafted, a new store name was chosen, and a domain was purchased. Monday morning they resigned. In the 12 hours in between, someone told Gen. So she can say she caught the designers doing something behind her back all she wants, but the full intention was always to give her 3 weeks of notice and it came the very next day. She can act all "Sarah Palin GOTCHA MEDIA!" all she wants but nobody ever intended to screw her or the other designers over. She did that to herself.
It's not blackmail. There wasn't ever "you better do this, or else this will happen" about any of it. It was just a case of people not being able to agree on terms. The designers said "we want this because it's normal at all other digital shops" and Gen said "no that will not be happening" and the designers decided to leave after they got her response. Up until the minute she posted her response in the forum, the designers were really excited and hopeful that she'd be reasonable and were planning on staying at P&CO. And to 173, it isn't speculation, it's fact. The simple act of you crying "speculation!" just shows that you weren't a part of this and have no idea what you're talking about.
sounds like some people here believe designers are chattel that belong to their master, instead of independent contractors who have every right to move their business to a new location if they don't agree to the terms of their current location. I say bravo to their bravery.
Why would you think all stores need to be run the same? I think SSD is the only one that has all the designers discuss potential new ones. SO doesn't do retirement sales. Should they change just because all the other stores do it another way?
183 - exactly! She does have every right. And the designers even stated that. They didn't threaten with "you had better change your terms or else!" but instead just said "we can't stay under those circumstances, so we are resigning and moving on." I just don't see how that is immature, or blackmail, or wrong. I do wonder about Gen's maturity if she couldn't see the forest for the trees, and thought shutting them down immediately was "good business" because she still has bills to pay right? I'd think she needed that transitional time more than those designers did.
Didn't all of these people follow Gen to leave Design House Digital a couple of years ago? Why should anyone be surprised that they would do it again? I won't be surprised when their new store falls apart in the same way.
186, I thought Gen owned Design House Digital and sold it? Or maybe in was Jen Allyson? I remember wondering why they had to build a new site from scratch.
It seems there have been a lot of immediate closures of designer's stores lately (since summer). I think it happened twice at Scrap Orchard, and maybe at SSD too (not sure on that one - yeah, wasn't it Mari K?). And there was Mye too. Has this always happened (and it happened to designers I wasn't familiar with)? Or is this a new thing? If it's a new thing, why is it happening?
Did Gennifer agree to the 3 weeks, and then suddenly change her mind and close the stores? Or did the designers offer the 3 weeks, assuming Gennifer would go along with it, only to find out her decision was to close them immediately if they were leaving?
If Gennifer went back on her decision without giving them warning, then that seems really unprofessional. But if she simply decided that if they were going, it might as well be immediately... that doesn't seem so bad to me.
I am on the Pixels & Co. CT and while I most certainly support the remaining designers and love the site and feel like it is my home, I don't agree with Gen and don't think she is being truthful about all of this. The following was posted for all of us, and some of it simply isn't true, which bothers me. ------------------------------
I know it's not easy in the forums right now, particularly when you don't know the specifics of what happened. Publicly, I'm very limited with what I can say, obviously.
Privately, I can tell you guys that I found out on Monday that some of the designers were leaving as a group and building a new store. There were people signing up for dec/jan promotions during the weekend, in an attempt to keep me from knowing... I'm not sure when I would have been informed if I hadn't asked outright.
They did offer to stay through the end of the month, however, I really felt like we needed the time to work on our future plans without them being privy to the details. I also didn't feel much like funding them while they built a shop, and since they weren't planning on releasing anyway for the next few weeks, it seemed like a "rip off the bandaid" move would be best.
So, while it's true that they would have stayed, they wouldn't have been "here" more than in name. I didn't think it was in the best interest of P&Co to do that. I did consult with the rest of the remaining designers, as well as a few impartial industry contacts outside the store, before making the decision... It wasn't done out of anger.
Obviously, I'm choosing to keep this private (which is difficult when they have ct members posting around the forum that I was so mean and unprofessional) so I'm asking you guys to keep it confidential, too.
I appreciate what you've been doing to keep the forums positive. Truly.
If you have any specific questions, feel free to ask them here. I may not be able to answer them fully, but I will do my best. -----------------
I happen to know that designers were planning on releasing items even after leaving, and some of those items were even available for us to work with before this happened. I also know of items that those designers were still planning on releasing next week, because I had sent messages to my assigned designer to find out her upcoming releases.
I now also know that Gen sent a letter to all of the departing designers on Monday morning accusing them of planning to leave the site because they had NOT yet signed up for the promotions she's speaking of, and she viewed that as indicative that they were leaving.
The story she tells in her post to us doesn't match the reality, and I feel very lied to and it makes me feel even worse for the designers who departed. I know they didn't mean for this to happen. I also feel bad for the designers who stayed, because they don't deserve this.
Gen, I believe you should have issued a statement in the forums saying that the designers all gave notice 3 weeks in advance, and you turned them down. When customers are angry about having no notice to use coupons and gift cards, you should be shouldering that burden and not expecting our site's team to shoulder it for you. It's hard to read you telling us that you know it's hard on us in the forums right now, and asking us to keep being positive, when you could have fixed all of that in the forums yourself. I'm so sad and I know other CT members who have already resigned over this but I wanted to avoid that and now I just don't know if I will be able to stay. You should have handled this better, and you need to hear that but I don't dare post it in the forum after what happened to the designers when they voiced their opinions.
Did Gennifer agree to the 3 weeks, and then suddenly change her mind and close the stores? Or did the designers offer the 3 weeks, assuming Gennifer would go along with it, only to find out her decision was to close them immediately if they were leaving?
=====
She never responded to them at all. I saw the resignation letter a few nights ago when the forum was wide open. It had been viewed almost 100 times and there was no response from her at all. At that point, it had been about 8-10 hours since it had been posted. I was told by one of the designers that she had e-mailed them before she got that letter, though, offering them to do retirement sales and store closing sales at the end of the month. I believe this particular designer completely 100%.
I find it really interesting that you don't believe what Gen said, 192. It seems like what was posted there is almost exactly what others here have said. What don't you think is true?
How convenient that in Gen's post she failed to mention that SHE brought it on herself. I'm curious to know exactly what those designers were asking for, the things she thought were so ridiculous she couldn't agree to.
197, I am 192 and I thought I spelled it out for you? She told us that the designers were trying to make it seem like they weren't leaving by signing up for site events even after they knew they were leaving, but she also e-mailed the designers that same morning and accused them of planning to leave the site BECAUSE they had NOT yet signed up for those things. That doesn't add up. Same thing with this part of her post - "since they weren't planning on releasing anyway for the next few weeks" when I know that part isn't true either.
The whole thing makes me sad. I don't believe her overall story, if the individual pieces of that story are obviously false. :-/
Whether the designers release during those remaining 3 weeks is not the main issue. The main issue is P&Co would be funding their departure, whether by having closing sales or just having those newly released products. If it's true that these designers have been signing up for Dec/Jan promotions for their own store and not signing up for Gen's promotions, I'd take that as indicative of their leaving, too.
I bet the most major demand they had was about the money... what else could it be? They thought 20% commission was too much. It was the industry standard though and I don't know what they expect.
Let me break it down for you, 200. Some of the designers did sign up. Some of the designers did not. She emailed the ones that didn't sign up, and then they resigned plus some of the ones who did sign up. Your designer isn't being truthful with you.
I've been on digi teams enough to know that getting 14 women to agree on a plan, and all act together consistently, is darn near impossible. I think it is quite possible that Gen was getting different messages from different designers (maybe some were NOT signing up for collabs thinking they were leaving the store, maybe some WERE signing up for collabs in the hopes that it all might get worked out and they would stay, maybe some WERE signing up for collabs to hide the fact they were leaving). I don't know what really happened, but I would not assume malice when misunderstanding and incomplete information could explain the situation just as well.
4, I saw the thread. There were only 7 people signed up out of 19. Explain to me how 12 of them hadn't signed up and she is telling the CT that they had all signed up in order to deceive her? Hmm.
This is what 123 said on the previous page: "118 here. When I left P&Co, we were at 25% commission, but it was changing to be up to 80 depending on sales." So they are paying 25% with a chance to go down to 20% depending on their sales.
4015 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 2601 – 2800 of 4015 Newer› Newest»Yes, digi scrapping specifically. I used to hang out at DST for years and they were always very active around dsd time. Now, not even a mention. Wondering why it doesn't just close up if the owners of the site can't be bothered.
----
I've wonder myself why DST even exists anymore. It seems pretty useless at this juncture and I don't have a clue how/why they they continue on.
Maybe for you..Not for others..What are you? Two? Not everyone has YOUR experiences at the same time YOU do. What a jerk.
Nov 1, 2014, 9:51:00 AM
----
Go ahead. Show us one unrevealed grab bag. That issue is dead because there aren't any.
Maybe for you..Not for others..What are you? Two? Not everyone has YOUR experiences at the same time YOU do. What a jerk.
------
YOU are really clueless.
That horse has been buried. There hasn't been anything to experience since 2011 when the reveal blog died because designers reveal in the stores.
There MIGHT be some moron poser designer that still offers hidden xxx-rated grabbags. But I prefer not to experience that.
To all designers who buy vintage images from CU designers like ABD designs and One of a Kind design studio that are both at CU digitals, please be careful. All of these images can be found for FREE at The Graphics Fairy.
Gave up on the snp facebook hop. The ones I tried eithr the links didn't work--or they didn't have links to the next person, or the download didn't work if you ever got to that area. Very poorly organized.
#16: That's too bad. I had problems with a couple of pages but I was able to download the ones I wanted.
# 7 - I completely agree. I bypassed both the Lilypad and Sweet Shoppe this time because there were just better sales at other stores. I got some great deals at GingerScraps, SBG, Oscraps. I had a ton of stuff on wishlists at the Lilypad and SSD but I decided to shop were I got more bang for my buck!
I hated the GS hop on Facebook.
Disembodied cat heads. Just what I needed to finish off my page.
http://cudigitals.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_281&products_id=12433
#20 It would have been nice to see it but the site seems to have disapeared.
Still there for me?
#20 - not everybody scraps. I'm more impressed by the fact that CU Digitals is still around.
http://thegraphicsfairy.com/vintage-cat-image-free/
http://thegraphicsfairy.com/free-black-cat-image/
http://thegraphicsfairy.com/vintage-cat-illustration/
^^^^
Not surprised, a lot of her floral/doodle overlays are 'free' on the web too.
Really? where?
Looks like the CU designers should be watching the designers there.
http://cudigitals.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_246&products_id=9359
http://cudigitals.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_246&products_id=11482
Look familiar? Look like this pack by Rachael broken into two packs.
http://www.sugarhillco.com/shop/Paper-Fall-Leaves/
"free" as in pirate sites and before you ask, no, they weren't hers to begin with
#27 - Bekah released her first set in October 2013 while Rachael released hers September 2014. So, who should be watching whom?
#29 You must have shit in your eyes
Released: 10-09-2012 To me it's September 2012
Once again. http://cudigitals.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_281&products_id=12502
All from the Graphics Fairy. I hope designers won't buy this when you can get them for free.
#29 You must have shit in your eyes
---------
Fuck off.
What the hell is going on at Pixels & Company...A Bunch of designers are *poof* gone?!? All that's showing right now are Celeste Knight, Deena Rutter, Gennifer Bursett, Jen Allyson, Robyn Meierotto, and Scooty's Designs (guest). What happened to Sugarplum, Mari K, Mommyish, Karla Dudley, Amanda Yi, DSI, etc??
http://pixelsandcompany.com/forum/showthread.php?3976-Change-is-upon-us
Well that tells us nothing. It was so random. :/
So does ANYONE know ANYTHING about the sudden 'changes' at Pixels N Co?
really curious what is going on- and where all those designers will go
37-maybe they will go back to where they were previously. Who knows? I really like the ones that are leaving. I've followed three of them for quite some time. Good luck to all of them. I hope they find a home quickly.
I've got no idea what's supposed to keep anyone interested for the next 3 weeks before she decides to unveil things. I don't think this was a very well thought out move. Do they not realize that it kind of just ruined challenges for the month? Like people are going to be able to participate with scraps they bought that should have been relevant? Fortunately I hadn't bought my challenge stuff yet but most of my scraps are now basically...irrelevant pertaining to their forum. Store collabs? I mean...? I hope they plan to do something in the next 2 and a half week period to keep anyone's interest because all of this mystery makes it kind of awkward to post there right now. They need more than that post to break the ice on this. I feel so...mph...kind of done there to be honest. Over 2/3 of what was P&Co gallery usable...isn't anymore for me.
I hope the group that left all goes to the same store. I'll happily follow them.
There forum was open and you could read everything. They are all staying together and shipping out because they didn't agree with how Gen was doing things. Stay tight, they will be back!
41, please tell me you got screenshots of that. I can't believe Gen was dumb enough to have the forum open, but at the same time I'm not surprised.
42, I didn't. Sry But what I can tell you is that it was basically them leaving her. It's sad but It sounded like they gave her reasonable opinions and needs for change and she basically shut them down. I honestly don't blame them since it is a business.
41...really? I check the forum often and never saw anything. Well, maybe not that often. But geez. Good to know though. I hope they hurry because I had some products to buy from some that just left for some pics I wanted to scrap. P&Co was starting to look worthy of a home forum for me. And then this. :POW: I'm dying to know what Gen wanted to change that sparked this much trouble. And honestly, I hope this means there will be CT calls to try for. Or at the very least, guest spots.
I was in a store with some of the ones that left, and they were bossy, know it all bitches who thought they ruled the roost. I was glad when I didn't have to deal with them anymore, and I hope they're not coming to the store I sell at now.
I hope, for your sake, they do not. However, they DO create some great kits and that's what they are selling. If they was to be bitches. That's their right. Just keep giving us good kits. Cheers.
I think with one or two exceptions, the ones leaving are a dime a dozen. The talented ones stayed.
Look a little harder. All of them are talented. Everyone at P&Co was/is talented. It's just a falling out is all. I wish them all the best. The ones who stayed and the designers who are on a new journey. They put so much love into what they do. They're all great. Good luck ladies!
Well said #48!
42 I did take screenshots of their resignation letter post but I can't post here without outing who I am and I choose not to. 43 was spot on about what was there to read though. Why would Gennifer have opened the forum to the public anyway? That's quite a mistake.
Wonder if they will stay together and open their own place or split up and go to different stores.
You absolutely could post it. Crop out any identifying information, set up a free photo host without identifying info and post it. It will take you 10 minutes.
Maybe Gennifer didn't open the forum.
But people are saying it was. So as far as I know, it was and it could be anybody. Maybe no one did it, maybe it was a glitch, maybe it never happened but unless there is absolute proof that it didn't, which how could there be? rumor enough should insulate against any real proof of who it is. Of course the better way would have been to not say anything to begin with and just do it.
Im saying that maybe one of the leaving designers did. I thin creashens was an admin, and so was mommyish.
thedigitalpress.co
Not impressed with who is left at PCO. The only one left whose stuff I like is Gennifer's and it's way overpriced.
Well that was quick.
Did the designers leave because they did not agree with the proposed changes that are coming to P&Co, or did they leave for other reasons?
57, I love Gennifer's kits too. I noticed that she often (couple times a year) had $1 or $2 sales on them. That's how I picked up a lot of her stuff that I own.
#59 when the private forum was made public, it looked like the opposite that designers wanted change and Gennifer just ignored it. Her changes were just adding more CT members to take over her responsibilities, not improve her business practices.
#55 - she removed the designers permissions for everything first thing in the morning. then she kicked everyone out 12 hours later. the forum thing was not something any of the admin team could have done. gen is just stupid enough to make a mistake like that. she doesn't know what she's doing. which is part of the reason why she just lost her entire store.
#60, so basically 'changes' is a strong euphemism for "I just threw a fit, so I better come up with something to explain 14 designers leaving and QUICK." Yikes. I do not envy her right now.
wait, #61 I mean. Oops.
sorry to digress
#30 there is a feature in some versions of x-cart where you can choose and change the release date of a product.
Note of advice - If you decide to change the release date of one of your products be sure to also change back to your old packaging. It just looks funny to see a product that was supposed to have been released in 2012 in new 2014 packaging.
http://imageshack.com/a/img746/5227/AF6OSe.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img903/3097/B2qkAD.jpg
I personally don’t think these ladies are using each others products, but are apparently finding their resources in the same places.
http://www.thedigitalpress.co/coming-soon/
looks like we know where the P&Co designers are going...
If she removed their permission for everything in the morning, how did they post in the private forum? That makes no sense.
Sounds like Gen made changes, but not the ones they wanted so they left. She doesn't seem stupid to me but I haven't interacted with her alot
#67 - idk - I think they posted that like the day before the shit hit the fan
#65 - I think she's just changing over her packaging. I have the old version of the product (copyright 2012). Sorry, I don't buy that it's just a case of them getting their resources in the same places. It's the exact same 12 leaves only the other designer split them into 2 packs of 6, adjusted the color a little, and then released them a bit a part so that it wouldn't be as obvious what she was doing. If it was just a case of getting their resources in the same place, there would be some variation to it - more or less leaves, something different. It's too much of a coincidence that they both bought only and exactly the same thing. If I were Rachael or I knew Rachael, I would be making a big deal about it. If there was a chance that it was a case of same resources, then the other designer would know where she got them, short of that I would be making a fuss.
I saw it, and it was posted yesterday, not the day before. 67 brings up a valid point. I wonder if we will ever know the truth?
Really, who cares anyhow? Designers come and go, they get tired of being somewhere and start their own store. That is how P&Co came also if you remember.
Truth is pretty fluid depending in who you talk to.
The letter from the designers was posted yesterday. I saw it last night.
I had heard from a CT friend that one of the designers said that Gen took away their admin access in the morning, before even she asked people if they were staying or leaving. That sounds backasswards to me. From what it sounds like, she was taking them out everything all day long until she finally shut their stores down last night. So who knows if they had access at point that the forum was made public. It's possible. But it's just as possible Gen was working in the forum and messed everything up. Either way, I find it hilarious. And we all know the truth behind the mask that Gen is trying to put up now. Things aren't all shiny and new at PCo. Everyone was leaving her and she threw a temper tantrum and kicked them all out.
Actually, 74, your completely correct. That is EXACTLY how it happened. I obviously can't say how I know but, trust me, I do. Just remember that these designers take this very seriously. They really do try to avoid any kind of drama because their business, for a lot of them, are a huge chuck of their income. The designers did NOT leave on a whim. It was a collective decision that was well thought out. They planned to exit with plenty of notice. Respectfully and with decency. Unfortunately the gun was jumped, Gennifer got upset and they were left without a store for the rest of the month. Now, not saying that you all think this but just in case you do, know that not a single one of the designers wanted to be without a store for almost a month. Everyone is working hard and everyone wished all the best.
Or they threw a temper tantrum and left. Your source of a designer is no less biased than Gennifer.
except that I saw the forum when it was open last night, 76. there was a thread gennifer started about how much she loved her team and how she had been doing a poor job and how she hired admins to do her work for her and "please stick it out with me!"
the designers countered with a post that detailed specific demands they had for her to meet if they were all going to stay in the shop together. her response was that she could do some of those things but not all of them.
the other post I read was the designer's resignation letter that was posted yesterday. all 14 of them were on the list and they gave her notice of the 30th being their last day.
that's all I know but I did see it with my own two eyes
I'm inclined to believe that story, because really think about it - when do 14 people all throw a temper tantrum at the same exact time and destroy their businesses and shops? That would be some sort of epic coincidence like the world has never before seen.
#76, there were no temper tantrums on the part of those that left. They respectfully gave their notice of their intention to leave P&Co on 30th November giving three weeks notice. This was agreed to by Gen. She subsequently went back on that agreement and removed their stores and their access with this cryptic 'changes' notice. Those that have left wanted to transition smoothly, with respect for their customer base, in a controlled and calm way and with everyone's dignity intact. Removing people who acted gracefully in such a way is nothing more than the actions of a very panicked store owner with a distinct lack of business sense and a penchant for drama.
That sounds like them throwing the tantrum.
"Agreed to by Gen" what was agreed to, and according to who?
I can't imagine a single store owner keeping 15 people in the shop that are building a store at the same time. They may not have wanted their stores closed suddenly, but what she did is smart business sense in my book.
I agree wholeheartedly with 82. Most businesses would do just the same in many other industries. I've already unsubscribed from several mailing lists. I have always found Gennifer to be helpful, knowledgeable and generous. From a customer perspective that was important to me, together with the well organised store and forum.
#80, how so?
I know from a source that Gen booted them and that it wasn't intended for them to leave so abruptly. I'm assuming this has been stirring for a while so a plan was made to gradually make a move and do things peacably. Nothing tantrum about that. Why should they suck it up when it's clear that 14 designers were in agreement that it just wasn't working for them there and Gen wasn't willing to make amends. Regardless of her lack of willingness, they decided that they would make their exits peaceable, and Gen wasn't having it and dropped them all abruptly.
It's unfair to say 14 designers were the ones throwing tantrums. 14 is a pretty big majority. 14 means that Gen wasn't interested in negotiating with her staff's needs...so they have a basic right to either go or to or create a place for them to go that meets the needs that 14 designers found equally reasonable.
In this matter at least, Gen lacked serious business sense. Her ego and emotions got in the way of her business management. Because as the shop owner, last I checked, she makes a cut of everything they sell, but her ego and emotions overlooked that because she had to make business personal. And at a time when she likely REALLY needs the money.
ETA 83 again, with the excption of Mommyish I can't say that I will miss any of the defectors. Am wondering though who the super special mystery designer is who will be joining them.
Last time I checked, every digi store has contracts. If Gen tried to change the terms of the contracts, then it's on her. If they tried to change the term of the contracts and she disagreed, it's on them.
I don't know who this is, but it was posted on the PCO facebook page and ai agree with it.
Connie Johnson Cook Some of the designers that left are already announcing a new store. You don't throw those together in a day. Looks like it's been in the planning for a little while. I wish everyone the best wherever they land.
Like · Reply · about an hour ago
What did they expect? I haven't seen Gen say anything bad about them, but if they've been planning a new store, I would have kicked them out too! She's being a lot nicer than I would be in that situation.
I agree with the above posters who said that no business would keep them for a month while they were setting up shop elsewhere. From a business perspective, it makes no sense to support them during their transition.
To the above who say that it makes no sense to keep them while they're setting up shop elsewhere. You know, understandable...but warn the customers and give it a few days notice. It's the way it went down overall without warning that made it so shady.
"Agreed to by Gen" what was agreed to, and according to who?
Hi Gen.
I have always found Gennifer to be helpful, knowledgeable and generous. From a customer perspective that was important to me, together with the well organised store and forum.
- - - -
That's funny because in one of the forum threads at P and Co today there is a customer complaining that they bought her grab bags over DSD and have been contacting her for 10 days and haven't gotten a response. This is my experience with her also, in the past. I stopped trying to contact her about anything and started going straight to the designers.
89 why warn the customers? I don't understand? You have a wish list you wanted to get at a good 'retirement sale' deal? You'll just have to wait until they have got their act together and shop opened. I can't see that to be a hardship.
I am bemused by the apparent shock of the designers who are leaving that their shops would be shut right away when it became apparent they were setting up in competition. Speaks of either them thinking themselves more important than they are, or their total lack of business acumen.
^^ Lame.
Obviously the people who think these designers already had a shop set up don't know the designers very well. That group is made up of multiple people who do web site design for a living and at least one of their husbands is a web designer as well. It doesn't look to me like they have a site ready now; it's just a temporary main page right now? Am I missing something? But if any group could set up a shop in a week or two after something like this happens, it's that group.
91 I can only speak of my own experience, which I have done. Any queries I have had in the past have been dealt with by Gennifer promptly and efficiently and to my satisfaction. 83 here btw.
93 here, and that comment was directed at 90.
So I got curious reading above and wondering whether this group really was building a site behind the scenes. I looked up the domain www.thedigitalpress.co on WHOIS for domain registration info. Looks like it was registered (purchased) on Sunday night at 10:19 p.m. and then that group gave their resignation about 12 hours later, is that correct? Seems to me that they made the decision to leave one night, registered a new domain, and resigned immediately. Sorry but I side with them on this one.
WHOIS DOMAIN INFO
Created by Registrar: TUCOWS DOMAINS INC.
Last Updated by Registrar: TUCOWS DOMAINS INC.
Domain Registration Date: Sun Nov 09 22:19:16 GMT 2014
Check it for yourself. It's public record.
97 So they decided to go their own way, got the domain, resigned after that, is that what you are saying? So why the surprise then that Gennifer closed down their stores at P&Co immediately? Did they truly anticipate that she would let them all carry on using P&Co until they were ready in their own sweet time? Really? How naive. Surely they should have known that would be the case. Will they be willing to host a group of designers in their new store whilst knowing they were going to be setting up in direct competition? No? Then why the hypocrisy in expecting anything else from Gennifer?
Using the word "whilst" to appear British doesn't hide your identity, Gen.
The guessing of identities gets so old here. I'm Gen. Wait, I'm Leah. Or maybe I'm you.
You can't be Gen because I'm Gen. You're full of shit.
I wonder if Mye will go to the new store.
I'm all for whoever owns the business should be the chief decision maker (unless they appoint/hire someone else to do it) and that employees should never ever be allowed to hold their boss hostage with demands, ultimatums, etc. However, when FOURTEEN employees out of 18 are unhappy enough to want to leave an already-established business, there's an big time administrative problem. I fully understand why Gennifer booted them once she knew they all planned to leave at the end of the month. What I DON'T understand is how she could possibly allow the situation to get so out of control that it resulted in a mass exodus. Not everyone is cut out to be a person in charge of and responsible for others. If I were Gennifer, I'd be maybe rethinking my career choice.
#102: Why on earth would Mye be invited to join the new shop when she was kicked out of P&Co for lying to Gen and other about collab money she kept for herself? She stole from her fellow designers and Gen. Or have you not heard that story? She shouldn't even be selling anywhere now. But no one tells shop owners these important little details.
A shop owner would have to be REALLY out of touch to not have heard the gossip about Mye. Maybe some folks choose not to believe everything they hear.
I seriously doubt that the owner at Snap Click Supply even had a clue.
the designers countered with a post that detailed specific demands they had for her to meet if they were all going to stay in the shop together. her response was that she could do some of those things but not all of them.
___________________________________________
#77, could you please tell us what these specific demands were?
I seriously doubt that the owner at Snap Click Supply even had a clue.
___
She was a guest designer somewhere before that. They had no clue either? Maybe it isn't true. Ever think of that? Unless you directly were a "victim" of her alleged crime(s) YOU truly have no clue.
#77, could you please tell us what these specific demands were?
___
If both sides were being honest with each other, this shouldn't even be a deep dark secret. Spill it. What were these demands? Why did they have to be made? Why wouldn't/couldn't Gen comply? Who was breaking the contract (I assume they had one and that these "demands" were either in the contract..or not)? The remaining designers will definitely NOT be able to keep the store afloat. None of them (with the exception of Gennifer) are remarkable in the least with their work and they haven't produced much. They probably didn't go because it wasn't worth the effort since they don't do that much anyway.
I mean, I agree, they'll be hard pressed to keep the store working, and even though I didn't have a specific fandom for anyone that is left, I can't say I didn't like the designs of the ones left. I had a lot of their stuff on my wishlist as well. They're really good designers. Just because I had favorites, doesn't mean I didn't like all of them. I still find them worthy of purchasing from. I just don't know how long the store itself will last. I think if you put any of those designers in other stores their work would catch attention for the quality and eye for design. I'm happy they'll try to stick around and I'll be more than happy to try supporting both stores. Their feud isn't my feud.
The gossip about Mye is just gossip. I'm one of the designers that she collabed with (and supposedly "stole" from) and someone is really inflating what happened.
The gossip about Mye is just gossip. I'm one of the designers that she collabed with (and supposedly "stole" from) and someone is really inflating what happened.
__________________
I'm not surprised by this at all. I think, from what the complaints were back when this transpired, it appeared as if the biggest contributing factor to the problem was a personal conflict between Gen and Mye that REALLY escalated. I know from Mye's posts on her blog that the whole matter deeply saddened her and bothered her for a long time. I'm not saying she didn't do anything wrong..I think there's a grain of truth in that she didn't do what she was supposed to do re: collabs, however, I also don't think she blatantly stole money from several people and then lied about it which is what was floating around the internet several mos. ago.
Not between Mye and Gen. They are still friends. It was someone else, and it was only about $20.
I still dabble in paper, and the ones that are left are powerhouse designers there. I disagree with whoever said they aren't remarkable. I think they are some of the best out there.
Not between Mye and Gen. They are still friends. It was someone else, and it was only about $20.
---
If that's the case maybe Mye will return to P&CO.
So now the truth comes out about Mye? Why didn't anyone step-up when she was getting smacked on this blog and when it mattered? And if it was only over $20 why on earth couldn't she hand it over and that be the end of it? $20 is just a misunderstanding and probably not cause to have to leave a store. She was painted as a huge thief on this blog.
P&Co better get their shit together. The designers left aren't high product producers and without weekly releases that place will dry up fast!
Deena, Jen Allyson, and Celeste (3 of the designers who remain) are all very talented and successful. Their businesses are somewhat different from most digital designers though; they also design for paper scrapbook companies and fabric companies. Because of that their aesthetic is VERY geared toward paper crafting and they don't always include the types of digital elements (or as many of them) that most digital kits have. They also don't release as frequently as many of the other designers. Robyn also doesn't release often and her stuff tends to be mostly pattern papers, word bits and stickers - not a wide variety, but she's talented. Gen's products are more the "traditional" digital style but again, she doesn't release super often. It'll be interesting to see how this effects the future of P&Co. It'll also be interesting to see if they bring on other designers, and if so who they will be.
I was a designer at P&Co at the time, and Gen was going to come here and post to stop the gossip and lies. She asked permission from the entire design team, and someone (I don't know who or how many) said no.
It's funny to hear that someone is saying the feud wasn't between Gen and Mye, but between another designer and Mye and only about $20.
That second part is true, there was a designer who was owed about $20.
The first part is bull-shit. Gen was also being slighted her collab splits from Mye, as were at least 1-2 other people. Mye did pay people back, but only after being caught and initially she did completely deny it, which isn't very truthful. Paying people back after being caught and after denying things doesn't make the attempt to steal things any less dirty. It was an attempt to steal things. Period.
Mye was also breaking her contract. She was secretly selling her collections from her own website in order to avoid paying commission. Gen asked her to stop. She said she would, but then created hidden pages on her site and deleted the other P&Co designers from her newsletter list and started selling from her newsletter. She's nothing but a cheating liar. And that is why she got kicked out of P&Co.
Gen did ask the designers if she could come to the blog to set things straight, as a way of making it look like P&Co didn't have any problems. The designers said no, because they didn't believe Mye deserved to be absolved of her digi sins. The end.
That makes no sense. If Mye was kicked out, what would her reputation have to do with PCO? And if Gen was supposedly so pissed off at Mye, why would she offer to post here publicly when that's such a risk?
#109 : The designers said they had been promised 20% commission when the shop started but agreed to something higher until the shop was established. I didn't see what they were currently paying but someone said they had been waiting for 2 years. At the end of the discussion, Gen said that would never happen. They said that Gen had been messing up their pay and sending it to them late. She also told them it would be impossible to pay them until 10 days after the pay period ends, which I thought was weird because aren't they all paid with PayPal? Why would it take 10 days? She also said that they had been getting paid 2x a month but she was switching it to just once. She was also changing them $25 when they were late for their freebie collabs. Gen also said she refused to have any sort of marketing budget. Those are the only things I remember. It was a long post in their forum. But from that list, I don't blame those designers for leaving.
If even half of what #121 says is true, I don't blame them for leaving either.
118 here. When I left P&Co, we were at 25% commission, but it was changing to be up to 80 depending on sales. We were only paid once a month most of the time I was there, but that changed in the summer to give people the option of two. We had the option to be paid by direct deposit, which I know took extra time. And we were having problems with people meeting deadlines, so we decided that we would have free passes from the collabs, or a late fee if we were late. The $25 was if someone skipped it without using their free pass. I don't know anything about a marketing budget, so I can't comment there.
My reasons for leaving are my own, but in my experience, everything in the store that happened was a joint decision. And, looking at my last contract (it changed a few times while we were there) it looks like they wanted to change the terms, not Gen.
I didn't see the forum post, this is just going off of what 121 is saying it said.
I forgot to say, another designer came up with the late/skipped fee. It wasn't Gen's idea.
That makes no sense. If Mye was kicked out, what would her reputation have to do with PCO? And if Gen was supposedly so pissed off at Mye, why would she offer to post here publicly when that's such a risk?
=====
When has anything Gennifer does ever made sense before?
I forgot to say, another designer came up with the late/skipped fee. It wasn't Gen's idea.
=====
and every designer in the shop had to sign something saying she agreed to the fee, which they all did willingly.
Closing the shops of people who are building a new store makes sense.
Sounds like they all thought it sounded good in theory, but when it applied to them they didn't like it.
My guess is those designers who are leaving decided they wanted to create their "own" store - get a higher chunk of their sales and hurt their own customer base who bought lots of their products over DSD in order to participate in P&Co challenges (yep - that happens!) and now those customers are screwed. Classless and greedy. Anyone with sense would've had a new store's grand opening for DSD not a month later. The designers leaving clearly were being greedy and blind-sided their own customers with their selfishness.
oh sheesh. If you are buying kits for challenges you are a complete moron. I buy kits because I love them and want to scrap my pictures with them. Not to milk 25 cents off of my next kit purchase by participating in some lame challenge in a forum. The greedy one is the customer who is crying fowl over that issue.
You got what you paid for--the kits. It's not the designers' fault that you are so creatively impotent that you can't scrap without a challenge.
I don't have enough money to buy every kit I want, so I have to make choices. Sometimes, one of the deciding factors is how those kits will help me to participate in challenges. If I was enjoying challenges at a shop, then the next big sale, I would likely stock up. It would be very disappointing if they could no longer be used for challenges. So I see where 129 is coming from, but I really doubt the designers wanted to screw their customers on purpose. And I don't think it was based on selfishness.
I don't think they were trying to screw their customers, but I'm not sure they thought it through. Would there ever be a good time to do it? They wanted the income of being in a store while building another one, and I don't think any shop would allow that. If they're going to build a shop, they would need to be shopless for a while.
129 & 131, you have to know that you are taking some risks by playing the challenge game with the stores for discounts. Designers move or retire all the time and generally without much notice.
They only started to build the new store after they couldn't work something out with Gen. A lot of designers move to new stores and don't get booted during the transition even if they are building a new store. Isn't that how it worked while they were building P&Co?
I was 131, and yes, I know there is always a risk that a designer will leave. And I would still be happy with all the kits I bought on sale if that happened to me. But it sounds like 129 might have put down a nice chunk of money, and I can sympathize with the disappointment. As 130 said, there is buying kits to scrap with them, but there is also the participation in the community - that is important for some people. I feel a little bad for the recent Cropped champion, who either accepted a CT spot or accepted the prize money for a year, and now the store is totally changed. But maybe she really likes the designers who stayed.
Anyone with sense would've had a new store's grand opening for DSD not a month later. The designers leaving clearly were being greedy and blind-sided their own customers with their selfishness.
Nov 12, 2014, 4:10:00 PM
----
Those designers didn't know they were even going to be building a store at that point. This all went down this week. So there wasn't a scheme to gyp you out of your challenge discount.
129 you poor dear
you should take your meds
There's no way p&co will survive with those designers left. I checked and I spend roughly 85% of my digiscrap budget there but not once did I ever buy anything from the designers that remain. That store is going under, it's just a matter of time.
And obviously everyone shops like you.
Well, she has options. There are plenty of talented designers out there and she could probably hand-pick and invite and fill the shop up quickly or put out a call to see who is interested. There are plenty of designers out there who would be willing to go there even after this. I think if she's going to try to run a store with just what she has left it will be an epic fail though.
#70 They are not exactly the same. There aren’t just differences in the colors. There are differences in the creases and folds on the edges of the leaves as well.
Those two designers could fuss at each other all day long if they want to, but my guess is they won’t. They both know where they got them and it wasn’t from each other.
#65 mentioned that they could have gotten them from same place and I have to say that I agree. Not only is it completely possible, it is plausible that they bought them from the same store that got them from the same distributor, who packaged and distributed multiple packs of 12 paper leaves.
The differences can be seen in each designer’s pack of leaves, and it is also possible for anyone to purchase their own pack of leaves, scan and extract them, and sell them in their own store if they are so inclined.
Are these the leaves?
http://www.scrapbookandmore.com/prima-marketing-embellishments/1019-prima-marketing-mulberry-paper-leaves-splendor-autumn-mix.html
Maybe they both have scanners.
No not even close
It's not a copyright violation to scan those in? I wonder what Prima would think?
You could ask them. Every designer on earth has Prima flowers in their kits.
And obviously everyone shops like you.
__
No, not everyone shops like she does but it's OBVIOUS that the remaining designers cannot carry a store simply for the reason they don't produce enough. You have to have a varied, decent-sized inventory to keep afloat and they don't have that currently. It's not rocket science to see that major changes will have to be made for this store to succeed.
That would cause mass destruction in digiland if every designer had to pull their kits since Prima woke up to the fact that their handcrafted flowers are being scanned and sold.
The Prima Flower scandal of 2014 is about to commence. :evillaugh:
who needs Prima when there are mulberry paper flower wholesale distributors?
And #129 - you are making a lot of assumptions about a situation you know nothing about. The designers have been passively letting things go and build up for a long time and some of them decided they would confront Gen about it. The designers LOVE P&CO + their customers. They did not value their leader and vice versa.
They did not want to leave, but as a last resort were willing to come together and create a sort of *co-op* store if it came down to it. The designers tried their best to be as professional as possible and wanted to stay on for their customers. It was Gen who kicked them back and shut off their shops. If the customers have anyone to blame, then please don't blame these designers who are incredibly talented, dependable and willing to compensate their customers with anything they need - including past purchases.
This situation is very sad and the designers are working as hard and fast as they can to get back up and running for the customers.
Gen is original?
hmm..
http://pixelsandcompany.com/shop/Confectionery-Papers.html
https://creativemarket.com/dora.katona.90/39515-Watercolor-Cupcake-Clip-Art
https://creativemarket.com/dora.katona.90/39523-Watercolor-Donuts-Clip-Art
#149, what makes you more qualified to comment on the situation? Care to share your connection?
"I don't think they were trying to screw their customers, but I'm not sure they thought it through. Would there ever be a good time to do it? They wanted the income of being in a store while building another one, and I don't think any shop would allow that. If they're going to build a shop, they would need to be shopless for a while."
=====
Let's just get one thing straight: more than one post up above has said something similar to this idea - that no shop owner in her right mind would allow designers to stay at her shop if they were building another shop behind her back.
In almost any other industry in the world, employers allow people to give their 2 week notice even if they're leaving the company to go to a rival company. Employers not only allow that - they expect it. They require and appreciate the 2 week notice, so they can begin the process of filling the position.
Also, it is customary for people find a new job before they quit their old job. Nobody wants to be jobless for a period of time, and employers never require it. Don't fool yourselves. People give notice as a courtesy to their employer - not as a courtesy to themselves.
In this industry, though, it just so happens that some of the employers are emotional women who make decisions based on feeling butt-hurt and not based on good business practices. What Gennifer has done here is just that. She screwed over her customers because she saw red when most of her entire design team announced they didn't love her anymore.
150, almost every designer out there uses commercial art. It's how it is used that matters.
There's a difference between an employee and a contractor and there's a difference between leaving for another job and starting a competing company.
No, 154. These designers didn't begin a competing company until they gave their notice. They were never planning on starting a competing company, or leaving at all, until 3 days before that when Gennifer turned down the demands they made that she should finally honor the promises she'd given when the site first opened. If she had been reasonable and honored the promises she'd been making for almost 2 years, none of this would have happened. Anyone who saw the posts in the hidden part of the forum when it was open to the public knows this. I only wish I had taken screen-shots.
155, unless you have a contract or written promise to back up your claims that you're willing to post here, I don't believe it. I'm 118/123, and nothing that has been posted as their demands (as 121 said they were) was ever promised when I was there.
How many of those designers were even there when the site opened? It seems like most of the ones from DHD stayed at PCO, which blows your theory about broken promises.
"She also told them it would be impossible to pay them until 10 days after the pay period ends, which I thought was weird because aren't they all paid with PayPal? Why would it take 10 days? She also said that they had been getting paid 2x a month but she was switching it to just once. She was also changing them $25 when they were late for their freebie collabs."
-------------------------------------
It's not uncommon to have a waiting period to get paid with a commission. You're lucky it's not a full month before getting paid your commission/sales. (ie. August's commissions/sales being paid at the end of September). Also it's not uncommon to get paid your commissions/sales only once a month. That streamlines the accounting process. Sure, it sucks when you're the person waiting to get paid, but this is common in other types of business.
The $25 late fee sounds like for an incentive for designers to get their work done on time. If it's not on time, it holds up the entire collab & could reflect badly on the store if it's been advertised to be released on a certain day. Doesn't sound unreasonable.
The designers have been passively letting things go and build up for a long time and some of them decided they would confront Gen about it.
_____________
It would have probably been nicer for everyone if the designers had been mature and honest from the get go and not behaved as "passive" two-faced schoolgirls. They're as much to blame for the way this was handled as Gennifer and their new self-labels of Victims and martyrs is very off-putting to me. I've read ad nauseum from their different newsletters, etc. how they're working very hard..blah..blah..Well, newsflash: THEY CHOSE to leave and that's what happens when you choose to start a new business; you work hard. It's unfortunate that Gennifer didn't allow them to stay in her store while they built their own business, however, she'd have proven to be an idiot had she done so. This is indeed a mess and to entirely blame Gennifer is ridiculous.
Gen is original?
hmm..
_________
You're a bored asshole?
hmm..
So if someone says they are working hard, they are victims and martyrs?
152- you are exactly right.
No, 161, but if someone says "poor me, I didn't know there would be repercussions to my decision" they are. That's what they're doing. I think that both sides behaved in the way they thought was best for their business, and not the customers. It's not fair to blame one side more than the other.
Perhaps they both did behave in a way they thought was best for their businesses- but in my opinion- and it is just MY OPINION- I think that Gennifer made an error in not at least negotiating with the departing designers to finish out the week which I believe they were willing to do. Regardless of what others think- it leaves a bad taste in my mouth as I think it shows very poor judgment. I would have had a lot more respect for her if this had been handled in a more professional fashion.
155, unless you have a contract or written promise to back up your claims that you're willing to post here, I don't believe it. I'm 118/123, and nothing that has been posted as their demands (as 121 said they were) was ever promised when I was there.
__________
Yes, Amber, and we all think you are a douche for talking about behind-the-scenes info and issues now that you're gone. Your P&CO contract even had a clause about not sharing privileged info you knew while at the site. Stop being an asshole and go mind your own business.
163, where have any of them said "poor me?" I haven't seen anything but positive words. I think you're reading more into their "we are working hard" than is really there. I'm sure they are excited about their new adventure and have the job to let their customers know that they are working to bring something fun and worth waiting for.
How many of those designers were even there when the site opened? It seems like most of the ones from DHD stayed at PCO, which blows your theory about broken promises.
________
No the ones who stayed are the people who are personal friends with Gennifer, and who don't produce enough digital products to really care at all where they sell or what percentage they get or how often they are paid. Their main focus is paper and fabric and that's why they don't have the same need to have their digital business run more efficiently and fairly. They just don't care, and they're friends.
If there's a clause in the contract about not sharing information, 3/4 of the posters here are breaking it.
I think that both sides behaved in the way they thought was best for their business, and not the customers. It's not fair to blame one side more than the other.
=====
Wrong again. The ONLY reason the designers gave 3 weeks of notice and wanted to stay at the site was to make it better for the customers and to give Gen time to fill their spots. The designers knew that if they left overnight, it would hurt Gen's chances of wooing new people and they really weren't trying to screw her over; they just wanted to leave. If it weren't for the customers and not wanting to screw over Gen, they would have left last Friday, which was the day after she responded to them with a solid NO to everything they asked for her to consider.
Wrong again. I saw the forum when it was public, and I read Gen's response. She said yes to some things, maybe to some things, and no to some things.
I'm not saying I wouldn't have left the store if I was one of the designers, because I don't know all the back story. But she definitely didn't say no to everything. You sound like you have an axe to grind.
Wrong again. Just because you are both idiots. It doesn't matter. What's done is done. If you like the designers, follow them to the new store. If you don't, then P&Co is still there with 10 products in the store.
Looks like 169 just confirmed it was planned.
169 thinks she's Sherlock putting the pieces together. But it's still all speculation.
If the designers had given their 3 weeks notice, and stayed for those three weeks, would they have all drifted off to other stores as they made their own arrangements, or was the new shop the plan all along?
The store was plan B if they couldn't get Gen to do what they asked.
sounds like blackmail
Looks like 169 just confirmed it was planned.
=====
Yes, as of the weekend, you idiot. Thurs Gen told everyone things would never change, even after all of the waiting and stringing along. Fri and Sat the designers all had discussions and tried to make a decision about what to do. That takes time when you are dealing with people spread all over the globe. On Sunday they decided to leave and form a new shop together. A resignation letter was drafted, a new store name was chosen, and a domain was purchased. Monday morning they resigned. In the 12 hours in between, someone told Gen. So she can say she caught the designers doing something behind her back all she wants, but the full intention was always to give her 3 weeks of notice and it came the very next day. She can act all "Sarah Palin GOTCHA MEDIA!" all she wants but nobody ever intended to screw her or the other designers over. She did that to herself.
sounds like blackmail
=====
It's not blackmail. There wasn't ever "you better do this, or else this will happen" about any of it. It was just a case of people not being able to agree on terms. The designers said "we want this because it's normal at all other digital shops" and Gen said "no that will not be happening" and the designers decided to leave after they got her response. Up until the minute she posted her response in the forum, the designers were really excited and hopeful that she'd be reasonable and were planning on staying at P&CO. And to 173, it isn't speculation, it's fact. The simple act of you crying "speculation!" just shows that you weren't a part of this and have no idea what you're talking about.
LMFAO over Sarah Palin GOTCHA MEDIA
If you want me to believe it's not speculation, post under your name. Otherwise, I will continue to believe you're talking out of your ass.
158 - If you're waiting a full month for payment - you're in the wrong store!
sounds like some people here believe designers are chattel that belong to their master, instead of independent contractors who have every right to move their business to a new location if they don't agree to the terms of their current location. I say bravo to their bravery.
I think they have every right to move if they want, but Gennifer has every right to not change terms at the whim of others.
Why would you think all stores need to be run the same? I think SSD is the only one that has all the designers discuss potential new ones. SO doesn't do retirement sales. Should they change just because all the other stores do it another way?
183 - exactly! She does have every right. And the designers even stated that. They didn't threaten with "you had better change your terms or else!" but instead just said "we can't stay under those circumstances, so we are resigning and moving on." I just don't see how that is immature, or blackmail, or wrong. I do wonder about Gen's maturity if she couldn't see the forest for the trees, and thought shutting them down immediately was "good business" because she still has bills to pay right? I'd think she needed that transitional time more than those designers did.
Didn't all of these people follow Gen to leave Design House Digital a couple of years ago? Why should anyone be surprised that they would do it again? I won't be surprised when their new store falls apart in the same way.
In business it isn't blackmail. It's negotiation. But it takes a grown-up to understand how that works.
186, I thought Gen owned Design House Digital and sold it? Or maybe in was Jen Allyson? I remember wondering why they had to build a new site from scratch.
So it's not really the same thing...
It seems there have been a lot of immediate closures of designer's stores lately (since summer). I think it happened twice at Scrap Orchard, and maybe at SSD too (not sure on that one - yeah, wasn't it Mari K?). And there was Mye too. Has this always happened (and it happened to designers I wasn't familiar with)? Or is this a new thing? If it's a new thing, why is it happening?
189, this is not a new thing and it really hasn't been a lot. Maybe you are more aware of it? The reasons always vary.
Did Gennifer agree to the 3 weeks, and then suddenly change her mind and close the stores? Or did the designers offer the 3 weeks, assuming Gennifer would go along with it, only to find out her decision was to close them immediately if they were leaving?
If Gennifer went back on her decision without giving them warning, then that seems really unprofessional. But if she simply decided that if they were going, it might as well be immediately... that doesn't seem so bad to me.
I am on the Pixels & Co. CT and while I most certainly support the remaining designers and love the site and feel like it is my home, I don't agree with Gen and don't think she is being truthful about all of this. The following was posted for all of us, and some of it simply isn't true, which bothers me.
------------------------------
I know it's not easy in the forums right now, particularly when you don't know the specifics of what happened. Publicly, I'm very limited with what I can say, obviously.
Privately, I can tell you guys that I found out on Monday that some of the designers were leaving as a group and building a new store. There were people signing up for dec/jan promotions during the weekend, in an attempt to keep me from knowing... I'm not sure when I would have been informed if I hadn't asked outright.
They did offer to stay through the end of the month, however, I really felt like we needed the time to work on our future plans without them being privy to the details. I also didn't feel much like funding them while they built a shop, and since they weren't planning on releasing anyway for the next few weeks, it seemed like a "rip off the bandaid" move would be best.
So, while it's true that they would have stayed, they wouldn't have been "here" more than in name. I didn't think it was in the best interest of P&Co to do that. I did consult with the rest of the remaining designers, as well as a few impartial industry contacts outside the store, before making the decision... It wasn't done out of anger.
Obviously, I'm choosing to keep this private (which is difficult when they have ct members posting around the forum that I was so mean and unprofessional) so I'm asking you guys to keep it confidential, too.
I appreciate what you've been doing to keep the forums positive. Truly.
If you have any specific questions, feel free to ask them here. I may not be able to answer them fully, but I will do my best.
-----------------
I happen to know that designers were planning on releasing items even after leaving, and some of those items were even available for us to work with before this happened. I also know of items that those designers were still planning on releasing next week, because I had sent messages to my assigned designer to find out her upcoming releases.
I now also know that Gen sent a letter to all of the departing designers on Monday morning accusing them of planning to leave the site because they had NOT yet signed up for the promotions she's speaking of, and she viewed that as indicative that they were leaving.
The story she tells in her post to us doesn't match the reality, and I feel very lied to and it makes me feel even worse for the designers who departed. I know they didn't mean for this to happen. I also feel bad for the designers who stayed, because they don't deserve this.
Gen, I believe you should have issued a statement in the forums saying that the designers all gave notice 3 weeks in advance, and you turned them down. When customers are angry about having no notice to use coupons and gift cards, you should be shouldering that burden and not expecting our site's team to shoulder it for you. It's hard to read you telling us that you know it's hard on us in the forums right now, and asking us to keep being positive, when you could have fixed all of that in the forums yourself. I'm so sad and I know other CT members who have already resigned over this but I wanted to avoid that and now I just don't know if I will be able to stay. You should have handled this better, and you need to hear that but I don't dare post it in the forum after what happened to the designers when they voiced their opinions.
158 - If you're waiting a full month for payment - you're in the wrong store!
-------------------------
Exactly. We always get paid within 48 hours of the month ending and usually it's within 24 hours, regardless of what day of the week it falls on.
Did Gennifer agree to the 3 weeks, and then suddenly change her mind and close the stores? Or did the designers offer the 3 weeks, assuming Gennifer would go along with it, only to find out her decision was to close them immediately if they were leaving?
=====
She never responded to them at all. I saw the resignation letter a few nights ago when the forum was wide open. It had been viewed almost 100 times and there was no response from her at all. At that point, it had been about 8-10 hours since it had been posted. I was told by one of the designers that she had e-mailed them before she got that letter, though, offering them to do retirement sales and store closing sales at the end of the month. I believe this particular designer completely 100%.
The designers offered the 3 weeks, thinking she'd go along with it, but she decided otherwise.
Wow 192, I was getting ready to tl:dr you but I got drawn in and that was telling.
I find it really interesting that you don't believe what Gen said, 192. It seems like what was posted there is almost exactly what others here have said. What don't you think is true?
How convenient that in Gen's post she failed to mention that SHE brought it on herself. I'm curious to know exactly what those designers were asking for, the things she thought were so ridiculous she couldn't agree to.
This whole thing is so sad. It seems to be a big breakdown in communication.
197, I am 192 and I thought I spelled it out for you? She told us that the designers were trying to make it seem like they weren't leaving by signing up for site events even after they knew they were leaving, but she also e-mailed the designers that same morning and accused them of planning to leave the site BECAUSE they had NOT yet signed up for those things. That doesn't add up. Same thing with this part of her post - "since they weren't planning on releasing anyway for the next few weeks" when I know that part isn't true either.
The whole thing makes me sad. I don't believe her overall story, if the individual pieces of that story are obviously false. :-/
Whether the designers release during those remaining 3 weeks is not the main issue. The main issue is P&Co would be funding their departure, whether by having closing sales or just having those newly released products.
If it's true that these designers have been signing up for Dec/Jan promotions for their own store and not signing up for Gen's promotions, I'd take that as indicative of their leaving, too.
I bet the most major demand they had was about the money... what else could it be? They thought 20% commission was too much. It was the industry standard though and I don't know what they expect.
Lucky this whole drama happened so we could get onto a new page on this blog post. Whoohoo
Let me break it down for you, 200. Some of the designers did sign up. Some of the designers did not. She emailed the ones that didn't sign up, and then they resigned plus some of the ones who did sign up. Your designer isn't being truthful with you.
2, can't you read? They were asking for 20% because they were paying her 25% and 30%. Wouldn't YOU leave if you were told no on that issue?
I've been on digi teams enough to know that getting 14 women to agree on a plan, and all act together consistently, is darn near impossible. I think it is quite possible that Gen was getting different messages from different designers (maybe some were NOT signing up for collabs thinking they were leaving the store, maybe some WERE signing up for collabs in the hopes that it all might get worked out and they would stay, maybe some WERE signing up for collabs to hide the fact they were leaving). I don't know what really happened, but I would not assume malice when misunderstanding and incomplete information could explain the situation just as well.
192: I'm on the CT, and I think what you just did is really shitty. I wish I knew who you were.
5, it depends on what my contract said. Was I being paid less than I agreed to?
4, I saw the thread. There were only 7 people signed up out of 19. Explain to me how 12 of them hadn't signed up and she is telling the CT that they had all signed up in order to deceive her? Hmm.
7, I think what Gen is doing is really shitty. So turn about fair play. You reap what you sow in life.
This is what 123 said on the previous page: "118 here. When I left P&Co, we were at 25% commission, but it was changing to be up to 80 depending on sales." So they are paying 25% with a chance to go down to 20% depending on their sales.
Post a Comment